Discuss.
(Spoilers inside, of course.)
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So, some of my questions right now are:
– Is Claire dead? If not, WTF? If so, WTF?
– Are people living in multiple time dimensions?
– When are they going to show the rabbit video?
Good episode last night…
Yeah, I think Claire is dead. Just like Jack’s father’s bones and Remmie?? (Ecko’s brother), the island ‘takes’ the dead bodies, but then they show up again sometime later, ‘alive’.
I don’t think they are going to show the rabbit video, I always thought that was something they set up for fans outside the normal story progression (like the video game, and the find815 website).
How did Claire die, though? From the blast?
I thought they would show the rabbit video to explain this time travel/multiple dimensions thing…
What does “moving the island” mean?
I would guess the blast is what killed her. She has to be dead, the only way she would not get off the island without Aaaron is if she were dead.
Do you think ‘moving the island’ is as simple as change the 305 coordinates you need to follow to reach it? Do you really think they mean actually moving the island. If it was any other show, I would say no way, but this is Lost.
re: the rabbit video, I think that’s one of the things I like best about the show. If all you want to do is watch it for an hour a week, you still have all of the story and know what’s going on.
If you really want to get into it, they have all of these online games, videos, and extras that tell much more of the story.
You get to decide how involved you want to be, but still get a great story out of it either way.
That’s a good theory about the coordinates. Really, I have no idea what it means — you’re right, with this show, it could be anything. (Or, maybe it’s going to turn out to be a real disappointment…)
On your second point, absolutely. That’s really the fun of the show, and the producers have gone to great lengths to make this much, much more than a simple TV show, for people who want that. My guess, though, is a large part of the audience is into more than just the 60 minutes per week. But I have no idea…
Hey guys! First, I think we might need a broader definition of “dead” as in Claire (maybe) and Jack’s Dad (definitely). Also sorry to be a dumbass, but what is the “rabbit video”? My sis reminded me that that Psychic told Claire only SHE should raise Aaron.
As for moving the Island, honestly, I’m thinking literally, of course, could it also mean moving it in time? I heard the writers claimed there was no time travel early in the show, obviously THAT’s not true… hmmm, I am finding the time travel component interesting, as well as the forward-backstory on why Siad ends up working for Ben.
I also (being into Buddhism) found the whole Tibetian-style “testing” of John as a kid by Richard and the implication of past lives, VERY INTERESTING, as they have already had things like the Dharma Initiative and other Eastern influences. But since Richard is an (apparently immortal) OTHER, interesting that they may be on similar tracks as the DI, especially since they insist they are the good guys.
Hi there. I’m Kittydew’s sister – she forwarded this to me knowing that I’m just as much of a Lost freak as she is, so I thought I’d chime in, if that’s ok…
So, here’s my question (concerning Claire) – if, as Charlie so eloquently reminded Jack via Hugo, NO ONE is supposed to raise Aaron but Claire, why would her dad come and wisk her away to the pergatory of the cabin, leaving Aaron to hang out on some mammoth subtropic tree leaf solo? And then why would dear ‘ole dad show up in Jack’s waiting room, presumably to chastise him for attempting to raise Aaron?? To echo the fine words of Carlo… WTF?
You guys haven’t seen the rabbit video???
OK, this is pretty essential viewing for Losties! And….what I only recently realize is, this is from the “Orchid,” which is exactly where everything is going down on the last episode. I can’t believe I didn’t put that together earlier. Which makes me think they are more than likely to show this video next week.
Here it is:
I both like and dislike the whole time-travel thing. It’s a neat idea, very sci-fi. But it also gives the writers and really easy and ultimately disappointing “out” — basically, any untidy plot line can just be, “Hey, it’s time travel!” So we’ll see what they do with it.
As far as the Buddist thing, there’s a good write up that includes your point, here:
if, as Charlie so eloquently reminded Jack via Hugo, NO ONE is supposed to raise Aaron but Claire, why would her dad come and wisk her away to the pergatory of the cabin, leaving Aaron to hang out on some mammoth subtropic tree leaf solo?
This is something I cannot at all figure out why or where they’re going…
The whole “I see dead people” thing is just weird, although I guess it’s been a theme all along. Remember, Echo saw his brother; Hugo saw Libby. (I think, right?)
My thinking is that somehow, with this time travel, people are “caught” between time periods, which allows them to exist in two places at once. But I’m not really sure how that works, and how it applies, let’s say, to Claire. (Where, then, would she also be “alive”?)
I agree with Carlo that the time travel thing is a bit of a cop-out on the writers’ part. However, it does make for interesting twists and turns, yes?
I also agree with Kittydew, in that I think our definition of dead needs to shift some. Case in point, look at Charlie and his (REALLY COOL! LOVED THAT SCENE) visit with Hugo.
But my question comes in when we look at the whole moving of the island, everyone other than the Oceanic 6 “dying”(?) and the messages from the “dead” (Charlie) saying that they need to go back to the Island – this all implies what, exactly? Something catastrophic is going to happen to the island? to the people?
I guess that’s why we love it so much – there’s no telling WHAT is going to happen! :)
Karin, I don’t think anything catastrophic really happens. My guess is the people that stay on the island actually *want* to stay there — Rose does (cancer cured), as does Sawyer (nothing to go back to). We know Locke wants to stay. (Jin, though, doesn’t fit this — which may mean he really does get killed somehow…)
I could see some kind of meeting, where they all have to choose who stays, and they all individually make that choice.
The Oceanic 6, then, know that Whitmore is trying to find the island, which is why they’re protecting it. And Jack wants to go back because it was only until he returned did he figure out things were much better on the island.
Only guesses…
Hey all,
I also think there are some people that decide to stay on the island, and the O6 are protecting them. Why else would they come up with such an elaborate lie? If everyone else was dead wouldn’t they just tell the truth.
I think this time thing is interesting, and hope they don’t use it as a cop out. Thinking back to the episode where Desmond ‘traveled’ back to where he broke off with Penelope, the old woman on that episode has always been interesting to me. She kept saying, no matter what you do in the past, the same thing will happen in the end. Not sure why that intrigued me, but I don’t think we’ve seen the last of that thread.
Yeah, ‘Dead’ doesn’t mean dead on the island, or to people that have been on the island.
With Aaron, I believe that in the second season, didn’t Ecko find the same physic that Claire went to, and didn’t he claim he was a fake? Maybe the whole Claire must raise Aaron thing was a plot point at the time, but in the end they realized they had other plans for that.
Now I heard that the season finale for this episode is more exciting and startling than the last one (the flash forward), so I’m excited to see what they have to say.
With Aaron, I believe that in the second season, didn’t Ecko find the same physic that Claire went to, and didn’t he claim he was a fake?
Hmmm…I don’t remember that. Let me check.
Holy crap, take a nap and look at al the good LOST talk I have to catch up on! OK, I’m gonna go watch the rabbit vid now, will comment back in a minute!
Here’s the episode where Ecko meets the psychic:
http://www.tvsquad.com/2006/05/10/lost-question-mark/
OK, wow! Well that seems to further seat the time travel concept, especially the whole “Don’t let them near each other!” Like let’s not cause a paradox and blow the whole Island up kind of thing. I paused and looked at the splice imagery. A building, some dude with 70’s hair and beard, the Phrase “God loves you as he loved Jacob”. I ‘d also throw out there that if you all remember, Ben used a white rabbit to test the sonic fence before he slipped out to find his dead mother and ran into Richard (BTW ya’ll know “Richard Alpert” is Ram Dass’s real name? Another “Eastern Spiritual” Easter Egg there).
So Carlo, I tend to agree with you, I think this is not so much that something deadly happened, I think (with the exception of Jin) that most of them are still on the Island, alive and either chose to stay, or were forced to somehow (or a combination, people like John choosing to stay, others maybe being forced). When Jack ad Kate fight after his visit to Hurley (we’re all dead) he tells her something like “He made his choice!” Referring to Sawyer, and I assumed, a choice to stay.
The 6th Sense aspect has been going along since almost the beginning, Jack saw his dad walking around long before Echo saw his bro. (And if I remember correctly he found the coffin and it was empty?)
G, I seem to remember something like that about the psychic, but that there was an implication that he was real about his reading of Claire? Honestly, it’s been so long, we’ll see what Carlo digs up.
I think Karin’s point (correct me if I’m wrong Woob) is that it’s not so much that there WAS a disaster but that Charlie warned Hugo and seemed to imply one was PENDING. I agree btw, that was an AWESOME scene, if I recall, we rewinded and watched it twice! I love all the extras, I recently read on LOSTadepia that many birthdays of characters fall on solstices and dates of significance. I never did get into the (didn’t know about it till it was over) the LOST games ABC ran, that’s the find flight 851 and such yes? But Karin and I have watched the Dharma project website with the imbedded message and called the Oceanic Air hotline number, even not having “played” those things add such a richness. We also love watching all the DVD extras. I have up through season 3, and Karin and I plan, after the season finale, to start watching from the beginning again.
So to the issue of time-travel (Carlo, when did the rabbit vid come out?). Is it a potential cop-out? Absolutely. Do I hold some (fairly strong) faith that the most excellent writers will not do a lot, or at least not MAJOR cop outs. Of course, as much as it was fun and enjoyable, I sometimes live in fear of Alias-style silliness. Carlo you point about it being scifi-ish is valid, of course from the beginning of finding the first movie, that was about the DI in general there were implications about everything from quantum physics style stuff to more occult things like psychic phenomena.
Wanna know my biggest bummer? That the kid playing Walt is grown up enough that other than things like possible flash forwards of when he’s older, we cannot follow an immediate story line about him. Although I do suppose with the time travel issue, we could see Walt (maybe how he appeared to John anyway yes?) as a “future self”.
Hmmm… god I LOVE this show!!
when did the rabbit vid come out
I think right before this season started…
Here’s the lostpedia page on Richard, the fake psychic. I am still having trouble remembering all the details…too long ago!
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Richard_Malkin
argh. Twitter is down, once again. Just wanted to let you all know, after today, I’ll have limited access for the next couple of days. We’re off on a little trip for the weekend!
Have fun C! :-) My sis probably wont post much anyway. She was at school (teaches where I teach). At home w/ a 5 and 3 YO, she doesn’t et to the ‘puter much! :-) Of course I am sure we will all burn the comments up after the finale! Soooo excited! G, thanks for that link, C you too.
OK, I gotta throw this into the mix. Who do you think it was that died that Jack went to the funeral for? If the Oceanic 6 is Jack, Hugo, Sun, Kate, Said and Aaron (unless they are not counting Aaron) then who died? I still think Michael’s a good contender, and they set the funeral home in what looked to be an African-American heavy neighborhood. Then again, the funeral director asked Jack if he was FAMILY or friend, which, though I wish our world was more racially integrated, seemed unusual to ask the white dude who comes into the black guy’s funeral, if it WAS Michael.
Of course, that would make Kate’s slight disgust/ lack of caring about whoever it was who died make sense if it was Michael, since he killed 2 women to buy his “ticket” off the Island.
Redemption again a big theme as Michael (who now cannot be killed) is trying to “do what’s right” on the boat.
Yeah, that’s a big question. I’ve thought through the same logic as you here.
The only other possibility I thought was Ben, but the location and everything else doesn’t make sense. More or less thinking of who Kate would be so disgusted about seeing.
Logically, it’s Michael. Which means, it *won’t* be Michael! :-)
See I don’t think it’s Ben because we see him “later” er… or do we? Now I am confused, the timeline thing gets so mixed up now!
So guess Karin did not get time to post, she may later, probably. on Friday when she’s at the school. Problem is (your gonna hate us) we probably wont watch the finale till Sunday. I teach Thursday nights and Sunday is the soonest Karin can get away to watch it w/ me. And we have to watch it ad freak out and all that together :-)
haha…OK, Sunday or later it is…
As far as the coffin, now I have to check, too. I thought the coffin was near the end of the timeline, in the fast-forward episode from the end of last season. That was more of less the last point we’ve seen — Jack is a drunk, with a beard, finally saying he has to go back to the island.
The scenes with Ben, like in Iraq with Sayid, were before that.
I *think*!!!
OMG OMG!!! Ok Karin just left, we were both freaking out! I’m not going to say much else incase anyone else has not see the finale yet, but want to discuss ASAP! In the meantime, some stuff I looked up…
Casimir Effect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect
and Bill found this…
Jeremy Bentham
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham
Dude had is body preserved in a box and students kept stealing his head… Gah!
And of course, what he designed, interesting when you think of the uses of some of the hatches…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon
And best of all, Bill found a link to a podcast for the voic on the phone when Kate answers, it’s someone speaking backwards… I wont transcribe, just let you enjoy!
http://getlostpodcast.com/2008/05/29/lost-episode-4×13–quottheres-no-place-like-homequot-easter-eggs-screencaps-audio.aspx
Who do you think it is? Does sound like Sawyer to me!
Here’s what Sawyer whispered to Kate, if you haven’t found that one yet:
Awesome Carlo! So am I on drugs and totally forgot about Sawyer having a daughter? I seem to remember that woman he conned-but-loved being pregnant… maybe? Ugh to hard to remember old episodes… guess I’ll go look up on lostpedia. Now that it’s over, gonna start from the beginning again, Karin and I may do some LOST-marathoning over break.
So you seen the preview for The Fringe?
http://fringefanatics.blogspot.com/
It’s JJ Abrams new show, looks like sort of his take on X-files, will probably be good, and can perhaps provide some succor for those long 8 months!
And btw… “Checkmate Mr. Echo”
I mean WTF!!!! :-D
The Fringe look amazing.
I had to refresh my memory re: Sawyer’s daughter, too. I didn’t remember.
See here:
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Clementine_Phillips
and here:
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Every_Man_for_Himself